Comments on: Khatami and Straw on “Britishness” http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/ thoughts from a stateless identity Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:06:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Halfiranian http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-24 Sat, 16 Dec 2006 14:37:23 +0000 http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-24 genevois: Do you think the majority is happy with its imagined community? Have you seen the results of this <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6203054.stm" rel="nofollow">global survey</a>? Who is in the majority if 80% want to move wherever they like? Yes I do think we can turn around and revolutionise our polities to make them fairer and more democratic. Having a democratic assembly - possibly a wing of the UN (though not representing states) is a way of doing this. Is that really *so difficult* to imagine? Elly: a "personal identity", like being a LondONEr, is great if it makes you feel warm inside, but does it change anything about your political reality? Being a LondONEr works (though I must say I dislike the whole campaign) because it is not a political identity. Anyone can be a Londoner. I wonder what Ken's campaign would be like if London had a border around it and regulated who could enter and who couldn't. What would be his campaign then? What would you need to be a Londoner? genevois: Do you think the majority is happy with its imagined community? Have you seen the results of this global survey? Who is in the majority if 80% want to move wherever they like?

Yes I do think we can turn around and revolutionise our polities to make them fairer and more democratic. Having a democratic assembly - possibly a wing of the UN (though not representing states) is a way of doing this. Is that really *so difficult* to imagine?

Elly: a “personal identity”, like being a LondONEr, is great if it makes you feel warm inside, but does it change anything about your political reality? Being a LondONEr works (though I must say I dislike the whole campaign) because it is not a political identity. Anyone can be a Londoner.

I wonder what Ken’s campaign would be like if London had a border around it and regulated who could enter and who couldn’t. What would be his campaign then? What would you need to be a Londoner?

]]> by: juno http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-22 Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:39:05 +0000 http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-22 yup. and as tony blair so memorably and blindly said this week - being british is about being tolerant. and if you don't like that you can bloody well go home. thanks tony. and that goes for londONErs too.. yup. and as tony blair so memorably and blindly said this week - being british is about being tolerant. and if you don’t like that you can bloody well go home.

thanks tony.

and that goes for londONErs too..

]]> by: Elly http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-20 Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:14:45 +0000 http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-20 A coherent sense of identity is a basic, albeit in some ways irrational, human need. We are always going to need to define ourselves. It seems that what you are hinting at is that we should strive to be defined not by our nationality but by our humanity. In this way we share our core identity with all other members of the human race. I would also see this as an ideal. However, maybe it is somewhat unrealistic given also the short-sightedness most of us have. Another alternative is to find a more ‘personal’ identity people can relate to, that makes them feel ‘part of something’, but which at the same time overrides old prejudices and is based on inclusive ideals – celebrating difference within those holding the same identity. An example might be found in Ken Livingstone’s aim to create a stronger ‘Londoner’ identity as seen in the adverts: ‘We are LondONErs’. It seems to me that this is strengthening an identity based on being proud of having relativistic values and those that respect difference (religion, ethnic origin etc). In this way it can achieve the converse of what a strong identity might typically lead to. As to whether ‘Britishness’ is another example of this, maybe that’s still an open question... A coherent sense of identity is a basic, albeit in some ways irrational, human need. We are always going to need to define ourselves. It seems that what you are hinting at is that we should strive to be defined not by our nationality but by our humanity. In this way we share our core identity with all other members of the human race.
I would also see this as an ideal. However, maybe it is somewhat unrealistic given also the short-sightedness most of us have. Another alternative is to find a more ‘personal’ identity people can relate to, that makes them feel ‘part of something’, but which at the same time overrides old prejudices and is based on inclusive ideals – celebrating difference within those holding the same identity. An example might be found in Ken Livingstone’s aim to create a stronger ‘Londoner’ identity as seen in the adverts: ‘We are LondONErs’. It seems to me that this is strengthening an identity based on being proud of having relativistic values and those that respect difference (religion, ethnic origin etc). In this way it can achieve the converse of what a strong identity might typically lead to. As to whether ‘Britishness’ is another example of this, maybe that’s still an open question…

]]> by: genevois http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-19 Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:12:00 +0000 http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-19 And what if the majority is satisfied with the cave they live in? What if the majority is happy with its imagined community? What if it has the right to maintain it? Also, your chicken egg issue with community-polity is flawed because you cant possibly claim that we can simply turn around, revolutionize and change our polities the way a minority of elitist internationalists (like us) sees fit! Unless you have messianic ambitions of course... By the way. Khatami is an ass for quitting. And what if the majority is satisfied with the cave they live in? What if the majority is happy with its imagined community? What if it has the right to maintain it?

Also, your chicken egg issue with community-polity is flawed because you cant possibly claim that we can simply turn around, revolutionize and change our polities the way a minority of elitist internationalists (like us) sees fit! Unless you have messianic ambitions of course…

By the way. Khatami is an ass for quitting.

]]> by: Halfiranian http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-18 Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:05:21 +0000 http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-18 Adam, I was trying to say that people with HIV would be of equal concern wherever they were, inside the UK or not. I can see that might not have been clear... Adam, I was trying to say that people with HIV would be of equal concern wherever they were, inside the UK or not. I can see that might not have been clear…

]]> by: Halfiranian http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-17 Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:10:35 +0000 http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-17 Big Brother Corporation? "Nations are often described as "imagined communities" in which bonds are forged between large groups of people who never meet. This requires a popular medium through which the national story can be told and understood. At a time when forces of social and ethnic fragmentation are becoming stronger, we need institutions capable of fostering a distinctive and inclusive sense of Britishness. The BBC still does this far better than anyone else." <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1941786,00.html" rel="nofollow">Guardian Article</a> Big Brother Corporation?

“Nations are often described as “imagined communities” in which bonds are forged between large groups of people who never meet. This requires a popular medium through which the national story can be told and understood. At a time when forces of social and ethnic fragmentation are becoming stronger, we need institutions capable of fostering a distinctive and inclusive sense of Britishness. The BBC still does this far better than anyone else.”

Guardian Article

]]> by: Adam http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-16 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 02:01:19 +0000 http://halfiranian.com/2006/11/08/khatami-and-straw-on-britishness/#comment-16 I think you'll find people already care about African children with HIV more than about anyone in the North East of England. I think you’ll find people already care about African children with HIV more than about anyone in the North East of England.

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